Posts by out of the box

46

long years of brainwashing finally come to an end.....

by girl_interrupted in

hi everyone, i'm new here......basically, i found this website a couple of weeks ago when i was in dire need of some like-minded souls who had felt screwed up about the jw's.

from about the age of four/five, my parents and i were involved in the organisation, and all three of us are stil messed up because of it.....we are no longer involved in it, but it took quite a few years before my parents found the strength to leave.

to begin with, i was quite a zealous jw, was baptised at twelve and disfellowshipped at fourteen, because as i got older i began to grow ''weak in the truth'' as people so kindly described me!

out of the box

WELCOME Girl!

I am new here too, and wanted to wish you a productive time on this board! Don't hold back, and just let it hang! Tell us what you are up to now? And your family?

out of the box

23

JW Shunning Does Accomplish A Lot Of Good...

by Honesty in

because it shows everyone in the community how cruel, unloving, hateful and distorted the cult can be at a moment's notice.

when a jw shuns an ex-member in public as the ex-member greets the jw with a smile and in a friendly manner the normal reaction of people who see this is repugnancy.

they see how hypocritical the jw's are because they go 'from house to house' proclaiming their love for other people and then display their real hearts when they encounter an ex-member.

out of the box

Honesty,

I agree with your post whole heartedly! Or when your neighbors see you are not well or recovering from an illness or injury and no JW comes to your home to help!

out of the box

21

Experience being 'out of the loop' of helpful information in the cong.

by out of the box in

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.to me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how jesus formed christianity.

however, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation.

out of the box

There were so many good coments that it is hard to acknowledge them all.

elsewhere, I agree, the subculture was indeed 'dirty' and more importantly imposing and dominant and I feel very 'worldly' in deed.

stillajwexelder, you feel elder kids are singled out, then your kids know humility and they don't impose on others. Give them permission to have a little backbone and you will save their lives!

greendawn, one must ask; Is Jehovah's spirit really with the org? If so where?

Sunspot, Annie, Yah, made me sick at the time too. And funny part, I am sure when we stopped going to the meetings and started to fade away after the series of events that followed, I am sure the discussion in the gossip ring was that 'Jah was weeding out'!

thom, I agree that the org cared only for it's own appearance after all it is the 'collective' that matters, though they do not tell you that and at the expense of the individual.

GoingGoingGone, Yes that 'lull' is actually lack of sleep, brain death due to constant brainwashing and a feeling of low self-esteem. Thanks for asking about us now, we are all doing great!

rebel8 I agree that boy needed help and a different mother!

nicolaou, Thanks, I am a survivor and now so are my grown children and their children. We became stronger with that which did not kill us.

Thank you for the opportunity to post here, and for all the great comments and support! I am constantly blown away by the participation I see here!

out of the box

21

Experience being 'out of the loop' of helpful information in the cong.

by out of the box in

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.to me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how jesus formed christianity.

however, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation.

out of the box

toladest, Yes, we all got counceling and the most effective therapy was freedom! And, he fullly understood that there were adults NOT doing their job of protecting the younger ones that made that possible. And he had the power to control HIS life and we could help him grow in strength. We became more and more free of the bondage of the cong. That in itself was so healing! We were not crushed, we continued on. There were more things wrong with that cong than I am sure I ever knew.

I certainly am grateful that you posted your expierience here. I have myself been a victim of sexual abuse within the org.

I am so sorry this happened to you! I cannot imagine what you have gone through! The fact that you wrote you were grateful I posted that experience here for you so that you could relate makes coming to this board worth it! I feel so good about posting here! I can see the anger still left inside you. Mine is gone, I only have sympathy now for a lost herd of sheep that were in that cong.

I wish the best for you and your continued success in achieving your goals for a more free soul!

dorayakaii,

in light of the cold, non-communicative relationship

Maybe that is where you learned 'distancing' for yourself. And because of the detachment to your father, you have learned to play the 'cold' part very well! I mean being amongst the sheep and inside being different. You are not cold, but you play cool. Interesting! What are you protecting? I wonder if it is possible to be a good JW and be REAL? I could not.

Questions from Readers in the 1972 Jan 1 Watchtower. Anal sex does not constitute adultry because the two individuals do not become "one-flesh" there is therefore no reason for divorce... Fantastic reasoning...

Again, dorayakaii, you have given me a lead into my next story! I will use that as a spring board into telling a story that was soon to take place after our 'sleep over ordeal'!

nicolou, Thank you, and now my two oldest are great parents! They spoil their kids, take them everywhere with them, and they do not leave their side! I have wonderful grandchildren that are alive, inquisitive and can talk to all of us about ANYTHING and we don't mind! They are safe because they are not growing up in the borg and we will make sure they don't!

out of the box

7

What do you all think?

by DazedAndConfused in

i would like to write a book on the experiences of people who have left jw's.

this is my plan.

i would like to be able to quote people's experiences (under their own names or online names).

out of the box

Thanks! and with a name like DazedandConfused I guess I figured I would ask you to clarify! Ha ha!

out of the box

21

Experience being 'out of the loop' of helpful information in the cong.

by out of the box in

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.to me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how jesus formed christianity.

however, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation.

out of the box

toladest,

I agree. This is why I discussed the outcome of it all with my son and daughter at the time. And why I posted it here. The cong. let us down because the problem of the type of people in the cong. was worse than this one problem as we found out a short time after. I have a few other stories that involved a bible study of mine with a former elder. I will tell that one soon. That was after this insident and we were well on our way out and so the shock of it was not as bad.

As I stated we did not hate the boy, and were lulled by all the brainwashing before it happened, but not for long. Put it this way, we WOKE UP to the fact that WE needed to look out for ourselves and not give up ourselves to the elders or the borg. It was clear that they couldn't handle the job. Mind you a few good Christian things happened to me and some nice things did happen, but they did not balance the stuff I had to put up with, after all there are 3 or 4 days a week you are around the people at meetings and out in service with the elders far removed up near the 'stage' and we are in the trenches! And at social events, the ranks or behavioral problems do not desolve!

todladest, Thanks for your concerns. My goal of joining this board was to tell these stories and they are the TRUTH as to what I DID actually experience and of course it is my side of things, my observations so you will only hear one side. But, if it helps anyone at all who is going through even a fraction of these types of events, and they end up staying out, or start to leave, then I feel I have 'witnessed' well. When I look back now on this board at the things I have let out for the first time in years I just shake my head. I put up with all that? I have not told 'worldly' people all this. I told some of my friends, and the Psychologist that helped me to straighten out my conscience. But, to see them in print for all of you to read is something I can't explain. Thank you for the opportunity to get up on a soapbox and express these events and feelings I have. They do not hurt anymore nor do they affect me like they used to. Kind of makes me want to go out in service to witness to the neighbors to 'NOT' let those fake Christians in their home, to go out and bare witness as I am doing here!

out of the box

7

What do you all think?

by DazedAndConfused in

i would like to write a book on the experiences of people who have left jw's.

this is my plan.

i would like to be able to quote people's experiences (under their own names or online names).

out of the box

The mediator of this group and the one who started this group did so without the intent of exploiting the posts here. That is a sensitive issue with me because I want to feel free to post my real feelings.

You will need to make up some sort of release form to email to anyone who's story you want to use. After all, a book is the last place you want to plagierise. You would need to have your words of their accounts and you do this with interviews not editing a post that 'they' wrote.

Another way is to have those who want to be in the book contribute their own stories (and they should get an edited copy of the part that they are contibuting for their approval before it is put into the book).

Check this site out about plagierising: http://ihsc.worc.ac.uk/clinical/learningresources/referencing/hownottoplagiarise.htm

I wish you well with your endeavor.

out of the box

21

Experience being 'out of the loop' of helpful information in the cong.

by out of the box in

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.to me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how jesus formed christianity.

however, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation.

out of the box

Honesty, Yes We felt the same way as you do!

Berean, Yes, that was my take. When I talked to the kids, THEY could SEE clearly that we did not fit in with the 'elite' of the cong. That there was a 'click' we did not fit into. I brought this up with an elder of course, and he thought I was being paraoid. And of course not to discuss my views with others in the cong.

Bryan, this did not hurt us as deeply as the 'collected wrongs' that started happening to sort of expel us from the group. And by this is that it was like nausea before you lose your lunch. We felt we were of the outer fringe because we did not fit the 'cookie cutter' type member of the cong. If you read my other posts you will know we stayed in about 9 years! Things were not all that bad when the kids were young, but as we stayed in and the kids got older (they were 6 & 4 when I joined) there was no support for 'teens' and you know how inquisitive they are, bless them questioning the world as they should as we all should!

My opinion about group dynamics: As new members came to the cong. dynamics would change as it happens in groups. Let's say we were filling a spot in the cong. for the lower income working class not educated (no college) single parent family. You know the ones you have to give credit to for surviving on fumes and still managing. Now, someone comes along that 'does it' better than you! Now, you are cast aside for that attention and must 'reinvent' yourself. Nothing is static in this world. Well, since new membership doesn't come along every day, it is not something you are on the lookout for. This I feel is what happens in the 'outer rim' of the clicks. This is just my observation. Single moms, etc are out there. If they are 'marryable' to the ones that are in the cong. then the approach is different like when I got baptized and the vultures started swarming in!

I say this because once I left the org. I went back to college and got my B.S. I observed different behavior towards me. I went back to that same cong. to visit about 5 years later. A few of the brothers who had been married to and were Pioneering were now divorced! And the ones that were 'off the wall' to me were gone. I was amazed how different they all were by my observation. A couple of them came by where I was sitting and wispered to me that they wanted to meet with me after the meeting. I had a swarm of older members come by to see me. I gave them 10 minutes of 'MY' news of school and how I was doing and then had to 'run' and would come by again before leaving (was visiting from another state where I now lived). The size of the cong. was 1/3 at least (so many empty seats!!!). I was a much more confident person, sure of myself and proud to be who I was. The main question by two of the divorced brothers was 'are you going to be staying around here?' And the way I figured it... now my kids were grown (last one a teen (calm well adjusted) now) and I had a degree and a JOB and could support a Pioneering brother!!!

Delilah, I was so PI$$ED off too! I had to use that anger constuctively so that I would not go insane! We did OK, my son didn't get permantly scared by that insident. We understand and felt people had different ways of living after all I had discussed life with them and I continued to discuss this insident with him so that he could tell me how he felt and we worked it out. It was the elders trying to protect the reflection on the society that got us. We felt were being sacrificed (including the other boy who was done wrong as well) and no one cared what happened to us who we now knew were NOTHING in the scheme of things. And the clear vision we now had of how the org was run! And how could WE keep ourselves under this type of 'so called love' and the 'truth' that we could clearly see had NO TRUTH in it! We had a choice to make and we chose to start to leave. I didn't want to move too quickly so we could adjust after all I had been in for 9 years. My two oldest were now teens and they handled the quick leave pretty well except for their 'dive' into the world where they tried everything including pot. That was a scary time for me. They survived and so did I. We have done well and will contiunue to think for ourselves. My now adult kids and I are not anywhere near the borg.

Thank you for all your kind and supportive comments! I am grateful for the time you took to post about this to me.

out fo the box

21

Experience being 'out of the loop' of helpful information in the cong.

by out of the box in

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.to me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how jesus formed christianity.

however, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation.

out of the box

I know that there are worst things that happen, but is it any wonder that people LEAVE in DROVES? And a JW calls it weeding out?

out of the box

21

Experience being 'out of the loop' of helpful information in the cong.

by out of the box in

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.to me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how jesus formed christianity.

however, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation.

out of the box

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.

To me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how Jesus formed Christianity. However, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation. Maybe it's because my father is a particularly cold and legalistic elder that i've been exposed to so much of the society's "dirty linin". This insight into the central core of the organisation was like opening a box and seeing with my own eyes what i already knew was there.

When you are not 'privi' to information they don't seem to care if it hurts the outer rim or out of the loop for info the cong.

There was a pioneer couple that had recently got married and she had two sons. One of the boys wanted friendship with my oldest son. They were 11-12 at the time. The mother called me to talk to me about a sleep over. We all agreed it would be fun. We discussed movies watched, food that would be consumed and settled on the boys coming to my home. All was planned in advance at least a week. Everyone was looking forward to this sleep over. I made cookies, we popped popcorn, had pizza, etc.

When the boys left the next day, my son was acting funny, you know quiet and withdrawn. It took weeks before... (with coaxing and loving hugs) to find out the problem. This oldest boy slept with my son (double bed). During the night my son was awakened by this boy's hands on his private parts! When my son told him to stop, the boy wanted to 'make out'. Of course this was the first experience of any kind for my son and didn't know what to do. My son told him that he would kill him if he touched him again and moved to sleeping on the floor.

During the time after this event, of course we went to a few meetings where this boy that had slept over threatened my son that if he told (his step dad now an elder) that they would get us in trouble. My poor son lived with this... This boy got other boys to call my son a sissy and names in the coat room, bathroom, and in the parking lot where I couln't not observe. I was so upset when he told me this!

I called the boy's mother who had arranged everything with me and asked her what was going on and why didn't she tell me? She said, 'oh he will outgrow it, we are egnoring it till it passes, the elders know about it'. THEN she proceeded to tell me that they pray about it to Jehovah! I was upset and told her that I had no problems with her son and his orientation or thinking and was not judging him. BUT if she HAD TOLD me, there would have been a great evening with the events and we would have drove him home afterwards, OR given him his own bed to sleep in with his own privacy and my son's! But why the 'surprise' on us and my son!!! She KNEW what the sleeping arrangements were! She even suggested that young boys try this and my son was probably doing it too! I was furious. No apologies. I thought how arragant! She was not helping her son nor talking to him to find out what HE was all about. She cared nothing for my son who thinks differently and had that awful experience of being afraid to tell me for fear of retaliation!

I called an elder, and basically he told me the same thing and asked me not to talk about it with others and that they were keeping an eye on the stituation! Believe me this changed the things I did for that family and how I felt of that elder. I learned that I had to watch out for myself and my children.

I sat my son and daughter down and filled them in on what happened. They then proceeded to tell me of all the teasing (because they wore old clothes to the meeting, and we were poor at the time because I was raising them alone, etc.) What I heard them say about the 'truth' they were living (an actual hell, and they hated the org). That really made me think. I told them they didn't have to go anymore, nor did they ever have to go back if their hearts were not in it. I wrote about the events that got me out before in another post, but this really helped me to make my decision.

We have never looked back nor ever thought we would go back. I visited a few times because I wanted to see who was left and what kind of path they all went down after we left. I saw they were not blessed because it all fell apart. My family though is still together and we are alive and well.

I hope any same-sex readers were not offended by any of my words here, I by-no-means meant that being gay is wrong. Our being upset was because of the way we were not told so that we could have dealt with 'my son's' experience as we saw fit. We had choices too that were just trampled on. I don't believe ANY one or ANY organization can tell anyone how to live their lives!

out of the box